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rhodochrositei mentioned in my <t/b criteria post> that my ideal 1 x 0 dynamic is "hostageshipping aka proud/tsundere/resentful bottom is reluctant and embarrassed to admit to what they want and has to be forcibly unrepressed by magnanimous but fully in control top who knows exactly what the bottom wants. and there are power struggles in vain or for plausible deniability reasons" and i wanted to elaborate on that by providing some case studies. this is specifically about 1s and 0s (ie dynamics that i think are sexy) not my favourite ships necessarily. but anyway here is some further elaboration on my ultimate 1 x 0 ship HOSTAGESHIPPING aka zerofalcon aka reiji/shun from yugioh arc v:
the contextual gist of hostageshipping is like... what if you were the son of the guy who sent an army to invade my home dimension / massacre everyone / kidnap my sister so i hunted you down across dimensions intending to take you hostage to trade for my sister but you offered to strike a deal where i work for you while you assemble your own army to strike back at your dad and essentially i became the hostage instead. cue absolutely insane power dynamics. the only problem is that not even hostageshipping fully lives up to the hostageshipping print for reasons i will outline shortly so the perfect 1 x 0 dynamic doesn't actually exist in my knowledge (YET...?)
also obligatory link to my all-time magnum opus from 2017 <compromiseshipping manifesto> which explains everything in more detail (so so much detail)
HOSTAGESHIPPING BLUEPRINT
ways in which hostageshipping is perfect
ways in which hostageshipping is not perfect
OTHER EXAMPLES
PROS
PROS
feels like cheating to put them on here when i haven't even met one half of this ship yet BUT i have it on good authority that they are perfectly positioned to laser snipe me from the international space station so i want to mention them in advance. i'll probably come back at fill out this section in uhhh 3 months when i unlock them for real. actually i'm going to do a preliminary pros and cons, i keep telling myself that fanart of akai fucking amuro is not lore but well it kind of is. TO ME
PROS
** if r63 bourbon i think she and vermouth WOULD be fucking though
*** this is all completely baseless speculation since i haven't met the bourbon in question but fanart of bourbon and vermouth looking blonde and beautiful and expensive and killeristic together can be lore too
**** i think vermouth is less interested in brat taming and more interested in 1. Submission anyway
the contextual gist of hostageshipping is like... what if you were the son of the guy who sent an army to invade my home dimension / massacre everyone / kidnap my sister so i hunted you down across dimensions intending to take you hostage to trade for my sister but you offered to strike a deal where i work for you while you assemble your own army to strike back at your dad and essentially i became the hostage instead. cue absolutely insane power dynamics. the only problem is that not even hostageshipping fully lives up to the hostageshipping print for reasons i will outline shortly so the perfect 1 x 0 dynamic doesn't actually exist in my knowledge (YET...?)
also obligatory link to my all-time magnum opus from 2017 <compromiseshipping manifesto> which explains everything in more detail (so so much detail)
HOSTAGESHIPPING BLUEPRINT
IDEAL 0 TRAITS
- wants to kill the 1
- importantly, is unable to kill the 1, though not for lack of trying
- strong sense of pride and independence, very stubborn
- repressed
- prickly, tsundere, probably a bitch (at least to the 1, may be nice to other people)
- actually it's really funny if they ARE nice to other people but just like extremely a bitch towards the 1 specifically
- super competitive and petty about it
- competent and proud of their skill
- which is why it's even more frustrating that the 1 is stronger than them
- a lot of pent-up anger that doesn't get expressed either because they're repressed or there's some situational factors that prevent them from doing so (eg sense of professionalism, agreement to cooperate)
- picky / fussy / otherwise particular or detail oriented
- regularly gets injured / beaten up / bloody
- desperate but trying not to look like it or otherwise good at hiding it
- generally has like massively intense emotions but sublimated to varying degrees of success
IDEAL 1 TRAITS
- cool, levelheaded, difficult to faze
- confident and self-assured
- control issues manifest in the form of magnanimity
- they are so secure in having the upper hand that they can afford to give gifts/concessions/leeway to others (on their terms ofc)
- indulgent but like controllingly
- patient and slow to anger, able to handle the 0's moods
- stronger, higher ranked, more powerful, older, taller than the 0
- megalomaniac asshole (may still be nice)
- possessive but exhibitionist streak
- generous in manipulative and dubcon way
- i saw a tweet from a jfan joking that the S in SM stands for service and suddenly i understood everything... the energy is "i want to give you what you want, even if you don't know or want to admit that you want it, AND/OR what you want is for me to be the one who wants it instead of you"
- if that makes sense
- like just really generous overall. like virgo venus leo mars style
- probably the killer / subtype thereof
IDEAL DYNAMIC
- no reverse, obviously
- extremely fixed power dynamic despite constant and futile attempts from the 0 to subvert it
- but they don't ACTUALLY want to subvert it they just think they do
- 0 has strong haterism towards 1, 1 finds this cute and charming and will probably tease 0 about it
- like this: 1-❤-><-💢-0
- the haterism should have both ideological elements and personal elements. and also have parts that are justifiable and parts that are just super petty
- one-sided rivalry is so good and funny to me i love the 0 going all out trying to defeat/kill/etc the 1 but the 1 barely registering them as a threat because they are objectively stronger
- unnegotiated bdsm and especially d/s elements
- it's about the 0 maintaining plausible deniability that they Don't Want This by semi-performatively semi-genuinely struggling or fighting back in a situation they know they can't win so they can be "forced" into submission without having to endure the damage to their pride caused by willingly giving in or the humiliation of admitting to wanting anything. all of which the 1 is fully aware of but happy to indulge (with some teasing)
- this is a big part of why i like strength/power/ability to determine top/bottom positioning because like... if the 0 can easily overpower the 1 there's no more plausible deniability??
- forcible unrepression is so good. intricate rituals...
the original hostageshipping: reiji/shun (yugioh arc v)
ways in which hostageshipping is perfect
- absolutely no reverse!!!!
- extremely extremely skewed power dynamic where reiji completely has the upper hand in skill, rank hierarchy, bargaining power, resources available, duelling strength, ability......
- shun wants to kill reiji so bad first in a war enemy way and then in a personal haterism way but he can't because he agreed to play by reiji's rules in order to save his sister so all he can do is seethe with rage while reluctantly obeying reiji's commands
- every time shun wants to go off on his own to do something (like HELP HIS DYING BEST FRIEND) reiji coolly shuts him down and shun is soooo pissed about having to roll over but he does anyway
- shun literally put himself in this position lmfao like due to picking the lesser of two evils since reiji is ostensibly on the same side of the war as him but it's still really funny that he actively chose to give reiji this insane amount of power over him no matter how much he hates it
- reiji memorywiped some other LDS students who duelled shun before his recruitment, so shun knows that there's always the threat that he will be memorywiped into compliance if he steps out of line
- memory is especially important to shun because he's lost everything (best friend, sister, hometown) and memory is literally all he has left so this is a very effective implied threat
- reiji is very generous in condescending ways seemingly calculated to rub salt into the wound re: reiji's control of him:
- he gifts shun brand new raidraptor pendulum cards he's designed to perfectly synergise with shun's existing deck in order to let him access the powerful new pendulum summoning technique... to highlight that his control of shun can extend even over his duelling
- he sets the duel field during shun's tournament duels to a replica of shun's now-destroyed hometown... to push him to the brink of a grief/rage-fuelled breakdown and make him duel more intensely
- he installs shun as his functional second-in-command... to put him in situations where shun will be forced to acquiesce to reiji's orders in front of other people
ways in which hostageshipping is not perfect
- reiji is shorter and younger than shun... height and age isn't that important to me compared to other things but IDEALLY i like my 1s to be larger and older than 0s
- hostageshipping is not my favourite ship for either of them, which is peregrineshipping (shun/serena) for shun and prodigyshipping (reiji/serena) for reiji. because SERENA is my onepick and actually i care most about her dynamics with shun and reiji so hostageshipping is really just one arm of compromiseshipping to me. because serena should be there
- shun is not really a 0 anyway because peregrineshipping is shun/serena in that order. even if reiji/shun no reverse serenaright no reverse is even more non-negotiable in my heart
- and shun barely fits any of my ideal 0 criteria anyway, it's just that his desperation + fury + suffering stats are SO off the charts that the rest of it doesn't matter that much
- admittedly i haven't thought much about pendulumshipping but if i apply my default criteria of shounen protags top and shounen rivals bottom then reiji, being the arc v rival, is not really a 1 either
- hostageshipping is actually like umm 0.7 x 0.1
- serena is not there
OTHER EXAMPLES
jaemin/renjun (nct dream)
PROS
- actually 1 x 0 shipping. TO ME
- my favourite agenda for both of them and my 2pickshipping
- size difference in the right direction
- beautiful visual couple of perfectface x perfectface i love to look at them
- i really like renjun and i really like jaemin
- this exists
- i wish i could explain why jmrn has such a grip on me that i needed two extra ao3 accounts to contain the overflow but i literally don't know why. except that i really like both of them
- WILD CARD: renjun's paper dollisms add a fun extra angle which is that at some point he might flip from mock violence into total docility
- they literally don't know each other like that. they are coworkers (neutral positive) which as you guys know i am extremely enthusiastic about but it is not conducive to the topic at hand
- i made up this version of their dynamic in my head it doesn't exist. or if it did that was back in like 2019
- also there's no actual killing intent, understandably, since they are real people, but it does put them at a disadvantage compared to the other ships on this list where the 0 for real is trying to murder the 1
- everyone on ao3 (except for my sexy friends) is wrong about them, including me (my views do not represent my views)
- i'm allergic to thinking about them for reasons beyond my comprehension i'm literally like WE CAN'T LET THEM KNOW WE L*KE JMRN also i sometimes get seriously haterised for no reason. well for reasons but the reasons might just be seeing the word r3nm1n. Yes i am jaemin renjun otp all time #1 rpf agenda shipper yes i have r3nm1n muted i exist. anyway that makes it hard for me to have up-to-date thoughts because i don't see them on my tl, which narratively mirrors the way that they do not have up-to-date thoughts about each other
atobe/shishido (prince of tennis)
PROS
- actually 1 x 0 shipping
- size difference in the right direction
- atobe is fully aware that shishido has been haterised about him since first sight and it doesn't bother him at all because atobe is indisputably stronger than shishido
- shishido is literally functioning as atobe's unofficial third-in-command like atobe has installed him in his executive cabinet despite shishido wanting to kill him because atobe the generous trusts shishido's objective ability and is willing to overlook shishido's murderous intent in the interests of achieving their shared goal of hyotei victory
- and when it comes down to it, shishido IS completely loyal to atobe too he just doesn't like to admit it
- WILD CARD: libraman4libramanshipping is inherently hysterically funny
- far from my favourite agenda for either of them (oshitari or ryoma for atobe, ootori for shishido)
- necessarily precluded after ootori/shishido doubles formation due to their overwhelmingly truelove monogamous marriage and atobe being a generous king who is graciously permitting his subjects to honeymoon outside his kingdom
- atobe is kind of more interested in tezuka like that but tezuka is Go Girl Give Us Nothing-ing him. and also in germany
akai/amuro (detective conan)
feels like cheating to put them on here when i haven't even met one half of this ship yet BUT i have it on good authority that they are perfectly positioned to laser snipe me from the international space station so i want to mention them in advance. i'll probably come back at fill out this section in uhhh 3 months when i unlock them for real. actually i'm going to do a preliminary pros and cons, i keep telling myself that fanart of akai fucking amuro is not lore but well it kind of is. TO ME
PROS
- actually 1 x 0 shipping. NOMINATIVELY DETERMINISTIC 1 X 0 SHIPPING!!
- size and age difference (i think?) in the right direction
- beautiful visual couple who i love to see
- amuro wants to kill akai so bad he refuses to believe akai can even be physically killed by anyone else (this is the extent of my canon knowledge at this point)
- gonna assume they hit most of the criteria on my list because mich and hwa keep 2828'ing at me every time i say anything about it 🧐
- WILD CARD: identity theft is the most romantic thing in the world!!!
- i might straight up die when i finally fully understand what is going on here like are they more hostageshipping than hostageshipping??
misc
- i would loveeeee to see this dynamic with a het ship (boy 1 x girl 0 to be clear) but despite my pretty extensive knowledge of ya supernatural het romance fiction i can't think of any examples
- this is my vision of alec/renesmee from twilight but they literally do not exist in canon...
- vermouth is perfectly positioned to be the 1 in question but the only person with that kind of haterism towards her is jodie?? who i don't think is a 0 they would be more like 1 x 0.4-0.6... and ran is not this type of 0. and bourbon is not this type of 0 for vermouth specifically*
** if r63 bourbon i think she and vermouth WOULD be fucking though
*** this is all completely baseless speculation since i haven't met the bourbon in question but fanart of bourbon and vermouth looking blonde and beautiful and expensive and killeristic together can be lore too
**** i think vermouth is less interested in brat taming and more interested in 1. Submission anyway
- also this isn't the only type of 1 x 0 dynamic i enjoy it's just my favourite, i am also open to this type of 1 x 0s who don't need to be railroaded into submission (jeno, ran, mori, carly, etc)
no subject
Date: 2021-08-25 01:36 am (UTC)tbh i find that this dynamic for het usually shows up in old-school sff, especially fantasy, but it's usually rooted in like... deeply misogynistic power fantasies on the part of the author lol :-/ so i can't recommend any of it to you in good faith. other than that i actually really enjoy this dynamic too (mostly bc i love tsunderes)... i feel like clamp kinda does this sometimes, esp in legal drug and a bit in xxxholic too (though it's a much lighter version of the dynamic in the latter).
no subject
Date: 2021-08-25 02:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-08-25 05:28 am (UTC)we do tend to have pretty opposite tastes but i think this particular convergence just comes from consuming a lot of anime/manga haha... i used to exclusively be in anime fandoms until i was like 16/17 so a lot of my early taste was shaped by those tropes, and i read a disgusting amt of shoujo manga especially so i still def enjoy it.
as far as SFF the only one i can rmr right now is lan/nynaeve from wheel of time but i really cannot recommend that anyone read that ever... i'll rack my brains and see if i can come up with the others tho
no subject
Date: 2021-08-25 10:03 am (UTC)Its real that nct be having 0s and 1s tho
Date: 2021-08-25 03:40 am (UTC)last tenipod recording i said this to noura already, but returning to my roots and witnessing fujiryo the origin was giving my visions and realizations, hearing smells and smelling colors etc etc etc basically i finally figured out What my type is and i think the key point that we differ on is The illusion....aka What Appears to Be the Lack of Complete 1/0ness...
and actually i think this can be summarized even more clearly as just like positive vs negative bc i think its essentially the same illusion of struggle for control but for like....winning (positive) vs winning (haterism)...really talking in circles here but given that i think you are extremely familiar w my fujiryo thesis i feel like u get it LOL
- also this may be just the fact that i can be gotten by World of Light from being indoctrinated by tennis at an early age where people dying and violence is like jokes and not that serious mostly rather than idk like gritty dark violence murder series....
- i do also like the haterism version tho......its just not the og too me so its not a central factor in mine
wait i think i literally forgot to say what the actual My Dynamic Type is. but its this basically:
Im guy who likes extreme power dynamics and size differences etc etc etc but for some reason my otps keep being like guys who are the same so i guess i like parallels more.....so my preferred version of this is like....
and that is why fuji vs ryoma duel in the rain & atobe vs ryom nationals quarterfinals are both my two fave matches and my two fav ryom cps.....PERFECT VIBES<3
ultimately i guess i want 0/1 to like....be decided secretly by both parties having extremely L/R skewed personality/preferences and then everything else should follow along with that In its most ideal form. but if the characters are not like that then yes i do also need 1 to outrank/overpower 0 in every way for the insurance...idk i kind of want it both ways like for the difference to not be massive so theres the illusion of equivalence, possible equivalence, but the 1 to just slightly have the upper hand, so that the 0 is able to make a comeback or turn the tables eventually but then the 1 actually takes power right back immediately after....It Really IS all about the double subversions.....
this may seem like i actually do not like 0s for various reasons but i do. if it seems that way it may be just that the scale in my head is like 0.5-1 recalibrated so that 0.5 = 0 and they will never functionally be 0.5s so they are 0s. bc less than 0.5 does not exist and will never be relevant to me its called loving high rankers
-i also think that we are extreeeeemely on the same page about Perfect 0 Traits....and that is why RENJUN perfect of the universe 🙂❤️🔥 like literally.....like um.......im just going down the list like tea tea tea tea tea t
- i think the only thing hes not hitting is literally like not Enough haterism (or getting beat up)/wanting to kill people, and even then he does a pretty good mock up of it... and that is why god made him an aries🙏 and also maybe even too nice. like literally whatever hes not hitting on this specific list hes just hitting on a Different type of 0 list so 🤷♀️
- i know you dont go here very much but all this time i thought liking dr was like the classmatesism loving gene in me x the renjun loving gene in me coming out at random to become obsessed ala krkn (who do not really fit this type either but only bc they are so extremely world of light...and are kind of non tennis friends despite being literally two jocks (?) so theyre the real outliers that should not be counted.) but actually typing this out made me realize dongren literally do fit almost all of this criteria....i think the crucial make or break is that hc literally is a 1 or at least higher than a 0.5 TO ME. maybe like a 0.7 idk but he is left in all the cps i like so....🤷♀️ at the very least he is a 1 with renjun....again...To Me. and that theyre more marriage than classmates now as you say but i think hc at least will never stop annoying and bullying rj ever so hes holding up his end of the deal....i have nothing to say for rj...............
Re: Its real that nct be having 0s and 1s tho
Date: 2021-08-25 09:26 am (UTC)> i DO 100% agree that the 1 enjoys the challenge it goes back to the generosity thing that we both like 😆 this shows like 1s confidence in their own abilities to not be overthrown even While being completely open even generous toward the 0s challenges SO TRUE SO TRUE this exactly YOU get it!!!!! you understand!!!!!
> the challenge/constant fighting struggle is like a game or something that actually brings them closer together & for them to be on the same wavelength about it i see your vision and i enjoy this type too (fujiryo atoryo...) but i think the main difference with my vision is that mine is like umm more wretched in that i really prefer 0s to extremely resent being 0s so this factor makes it less likely for them to treat the engagement as a fun game... i like the investment in the fight to be super skewed as well (where like the 0 has deeply personal/desperate stakes but the 1 is more like just returning the energy as an act of indulgence)
> both parties should Need constant challenge or they die, but the 1 needs to be Guy who I am uncomfortable when they are losing and the 0 needs to be Guy who I love to see losing so much its unreal (oshi way not derogatory).... i agreeeeee this is also my thesis!!! the deniability does need to be plausible after all the 0 needs to be able to put up a good fight. im kind of just endlessly repeating myself but i think the places where our visions differ despite same fundamental reasoning are so interesting keke
> your 0-1 scale actually being 0.5-1 scale made me laugh so much sgkjfdksjdkjfds Its true tho, function >> form which is why ranking people on 0-1 scale is like practically useless to me even tho i love to do it because in application people are just 1s and 0s to me
> renjun is always right 😃🥰💖 like tbf this list is tailored towards fictional canons with violence so yk hes doing pretty well for a real person >:) being aries is literally enough to count
> hc is 0.5 to me because i kind of equally ship him as left or right even tho hes fixed position within those cps but i DO think that its dr no reverse anyway tho so in that context ia lol i was thinking about my imaginary version of jmrn but ahhh 2018-9 dr where hc would not stop winding rj up and rj would get futilely mad and they did violence on e/o about it i miss her 😔 renjun stopped needing intricate rituals which is so sad for me... can he at least performatively struggle a bit again...